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Post by lenke on Jan 11, 2014 2:45:46 GMT -7
There're several ways to get a recalcitrant grey back into its cage once it's out, however, in all cases, the aim is to teach the grey that the cage is a sanctuary and a place they WANT to be in. Right now, to me, it sound like you've turned the cage into a bit of a battle ground between maxi & yourself with the result you want him inside, he wants to be outside and neither of you are working TOGETHER to find a nice happy peaceful middle ground
My suggestion, therefore is you sit down and think carefully about what exactly you want from maxi. He needs mental enrichment & fulfillment and is not getting (and will never get) this from inside his cage. If you are too nervous to allow him to explore his outside world, then either find someone who isn't scared to help you put him back at night time or when he's unsupervised, or consider strongly the possibility that maxi is not the bird for you and should possibly be re homed.
My Lucky does not have the door to his cage closed. EVER. He has free access to my house (and lately my garden which is ageing me big time, coz we have a number of large raptors who'd LOVE to snack on a doodle noodle!) because I feel seeing as he spent the first 60odd years of his life stuck in a cage, he deserves some exploring now. But that is something I can do because I have 100% faith in his 100% trust in me. It took me almost 3 years to build that trust with him.
So far, all I hear from your interactions with maxi is a huge sense of impatience from you because maxi isn't doing what you expect a grey to do.
Again I say, you need to sit down and think through your options with this guy very very carefully
If you are invested in building a life long relationship with this bird allowing him to be himself and live an enriched and interesting life, then we will all be here to help you get there as we have done with our birds. If you just want him to "just do it your way all the time" well then, perhaps he would be better with another owner, and you with a different bird
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Maxi & Lexi
Weaned Todd
Joined: November 2013
Posts: 56
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Post by Maxi & Lexi on Jan 11, 2014 13:06:02 GMT -7
I've been under pressure from my parents that he is not getting along like my other grey and to rehome it but i dont want to i have faith in him and i know he will be great once he gets used to me more im always patient with him and always sitting next to him and talking and singing to him and he is always relaxed when im near, so im not losing hope nor giving him back iam ready to work hard for him to trust me.. I dont want to take his freedom at all i'd love for him to stay outside it's just the night time that im scared of.. Is it fine if he stayed the night out if the room Is closed? And toweling him to get him inside at night, does it affect him and the relationship im trying to build? My other grey is 5 months old he takes food from my hand and he lets me touch his beak and also he bites my finger softly, sometimes i put them next to eachother and offer angy( young grey) food infront of maxi maybe maxi will see that i won't hurt him but still he wont. It's fine i just want the best for him.
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Maxi & Lexi
Weaned Todd
Joined: November 2013
Posts: 56
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Post by Maxi & Lexi on Jan 11, 2014 13:19:52 GMT -7
You know, the cage is not that big it's enough for him to go up and down and stretch, but not the perfect one for african greys, i'm buying him A new one next month could this be the reason? Please some advices because im positive he is my guy and i want him for a life time:) thanks
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Post by lenke on Jan 12, 2014 4:45:33 GMT -7
right, if you are serious, then i suggest as follows
1) IMMEDIATELY stop toweling him. instead, withhold his food until about 19h00 (7pm) at night - you'd give him breakfast and if you need to, lunch as well, but take the food away at about 15h00 (3pm), replacing it with toys (the inner roll from your toilet paper, or scrunchled up newspaper with a few nuts hidden inside). then at 19h00, you put the food back in the cage, and tell him its bed time.for the first while, you are probably going to have to wait him out....by this i mean, you're going to have to sit quietly in the room until he climbs back into his cage to get to the food. Then, once he's gone to his food, you very calmly stand up and close up his cage and put his night time cover on. once he's worked out that bed time is ALWAYS at the same time (my Doodle knows that 19h00 is time to go to his sleeping perch and 21h00 is lights out, sleep time) then he should begin to anticipate this for you. You can help make it easier for him by putting a few special treats in his food bowl for his supper - nutriberries, seed balls, his favourite nuts etc. 2) SLOW DOWN....he's telling you you are pushing him faster than he's comfortable with, so slow yourself down. If he doesn't want to take food from you hand just yet, well, so be it. Leave him be. Allow him to be on his own, if thats what he wants. Some birds prefer this. If he wants to be close with you, he will make this obvious in his own way. You need to slow down and start observing him so you can learn to see what he's trying to tell you 3) if maxi is not getting along with your other grey (and some just don't get along, so you may have to accept this) then don't try and force the issue. You are trying to build trust, and continuously forcing company he doesn't want on him is NOT helping.
If you can do these three things, and STICK TO THEM for at least a month, then i am very sure you will begin to see some changes for the better in your interactions with maxi
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Maxi & Lexi
Weaned Todd
Joined: November 2013
Posts: 56
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Post by Maxi & Lexi on Jan 12, 2014 11:58:06 GMT -7
Okay thanks that's what i'm going to do. One more question about my greys they do get along because once i set them both free and they directly got together and started kissing and scratching for eachother i guess they are different gender.. But because i've been told that since both are new if they stay together they will ignore me instead of getting attached to me so i put each in a dofferent rooms both see us always and are places where the family sits, but when one of then starts whistling the other whistles as well and maxi go crazy as if he want to get to Angy.. Whats do you think about that? Might this be an obstacle for me that none would like me nor starts talking? Thank you
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Post by stef on Jan 12, 2014 20:55:00 GMT -7
Hector is very cautious and didn't like my hands any where near him. I would have my meals with him and also have some grapes, cut them into quarters. I sat in front of him and held out a piece and would say "want some" and when he didn't take it I would eat it. Then offer the next, until they we were done. Then at the next meal I would do the same thing with small bites of food. It did not take him very long before he took one piece, we did that at every meal. Now he'll take almost anything and if he doesn't, I eat it and move on. Eating with him was very stimulating for him, he really can't hold out too long before he takes food. 9 months later food continues to be our best bond. Keep at it.
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Post by lenke on Jan 13, 2014 7:56:19 GMT -7
Well, I don't know much about 2 greys, but there are owners here who do have 2 and who can offer you better advice, however, to me it seems a bit unfair on the birds, if they do like each other, to keep them separated. I will ask some of my colleagues with more than one grey their thoughts
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Post by Adele on Jan 13, 2014 10:53:09 GMT -7
I remember thinking it was not a great idea to buy a second African Grey when you're relationship with the first one is still a struggle. It did seem like they might bond to each other rather than you, but I do agree with Lenke that is sounds like a really bad idea to keep them separated if they like each other.
If you are concerned about them bonding to each other rather than you, then you should find another home for one of the birds. Right now, it seems that Maxi is not happy with life, and the other grey (you said they scratch each other) is one of the few good things in his life. You shouldn't cut that positive out of his life and instead keep trying to build up the positive experiences for Maxi.
I have two African Greys and they are both bonded to me, but I had one for a long time before getting a second one. Other members have two african greys and got them at the same time and always kept them in a cage together.
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Maxi & Lexi
Weaned Todd
Joined: November 2013
Posts: 56
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Post by Maxi & Lexi on Jan 14, 2014 10:44:01 GMT -7
I don't feel it's good for Maxi to be introduced to a new family i'm afraid he will be more scared and stressed, Angy is younger than Maxi i guess few years different that's why i doubt the idea a bit i don't know if it is good to put them together plus if i did and tried to offer Angy food from my hand Maxi will growl and maybe Angy will end this bond with me as well.. i'm buying him a new cage tomorrow a big one with lots of toys, maybe then he will be happy with me and evolve our relationship.. I hope so
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Post by lenke on Jan 14, 2014 12:29:31 GMT -7
AGAIN!!!! SLOW DOWN! You are rushing through everything with both the birds. I am totally not surprised to hear of the growling etc. And now you say you want a new cage with lots of toys etc for your other bird so "maybe he'll then be happy..." C'MON! You can't BRIBE a bond out of these birds. Its a trust thing. Trust is EARNED not bought with new toys and cages. Again i say, think hard about if you are the correct owner for either bird. We offer our advice and suggestions based on our experience with our own birds. Yet you seem to prefer not to want to take our advice. In all honesty, the chances are one or both birds will do very well in other homes, as well as they'd do in your situation. What we're trying to get across to you is that by continually saying that you don't want to risk their "bonding to you" you are being selfish towards their ultimate well being - mentally, physically & emotionally. African Greys are highly social creatures, as well as being highly intelligent. they require more than what living on their own can give them, especially if they are not permitted to be a part of your daily living. Even my old boy, while an only parrot, is part of our life. He joins us in living in the whole house & garden. he has plenty of comapny & stimulation ALL THE TIME. By denying your birds something as simple as being in the same room you are denying them a very basic need. If you wanted to have a bond, you should have stuck with only one bird (and at this time, i am not convinced a bird as clever as a grey is the correct comapnion for you either as they need MUCh more than what it sounds you are willing to give). Sometimes one has to make hard decisions in the best interests of the creatures we chose to have in our lives. In your case, you should really look at rehoming one of the two birds (and from everything you've written, it sound to me like Maxi is the one it would be easier for you to part with) BUT if you are going to keep one of the birds, then you really need to up your game BIG TIME in terms of being an empathetic & sympathetic companion to the living, thinking, feeling being that is an African Grey. you cannot FORCE the poor soul into a mould you THINK they should fit. You have to pay attention to what the bird is trying to tell you through body language, vocalisations, behaviour patterns, habits etc.and to do this, you need to slow down and quiet down internally. Stop the voices in your own head telling you to do this or that. Allow the silence within yourself to open up and hear the message the parrot is trying to give you. Once you can hear what the bird's trying to tell you, THEN you can begin to bond with it, and only once you've begun this process will you find a creture that may allow you cuddle, kiss, handle and manipulate it. There is soooo much more to these intelligent sentient beings than just being a cute and noisy distraction. And they deserve to be treated with respect and recognition of their sentience.
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Maxi & Lexi
Weaned Todd
Joined: November 2013
Posts: 56
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Post by Maxi & Lexi on Jan 15, 2014 9:17:16 GMT -7
Well first Iam taking your advices and i'm definitely not bribing him, i'm providing better cage for him to have more fun and feel more comfortable in his own territory. Second i'm not rushing things anymore i'm taking it slow, the vet told me to keep them apart until they r used to me more.. If it didnt work out with me and maxi ill consider rehoming him, for now im going to wait to ear his trust.
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Maxi & Lexi
Weaned Todd
Joined: November 2013
Posts: 56
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Post by Maxi & Lexi on Jan 16, 2014 2:26:27 GMT -7
I have great news, i got the cage and it's perfect for both of them they r together now and so happy glad i took the advice thanks Even maxi didn't growl when i tried offering food
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Maxi & Lexi
Weaned Todd
Joined: November 2013
Posts: 56
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Post by Maxi & Lexi on Jan 16, 2014 2:28:40 GMT -7
But guys the difference in age doesnt matter right? Because i feel Maxi wants to mate he did the head bobbing trice while kissing and cuddling with Angy and Angy is still young 5 months old, can they mate? If yes what should i get them to be able to mate? Even now when they hear another grey's whistling they go crazy .. Is it normal? Like they open their wings and starts going up and down inside the cage?
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Maxi & Lexi
Weaned Todd
Joined: November 2013
Posts: 56
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Post by Maxi & Lexi on Jan 16, 2014 2:43:53 GMT -7
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Maxi & Lexi
Weaned Todd
Joined: November 2013
Posts: 56
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Post by Maxi & Lexi on Jan 16, 2014 3:22:41 GMT -7
Guys iam scared :s while they arw both inside and moving if they approach eachother they start yelling at eachother it happened trice but while they are on their perch they kiss and they act fine, maybe because Angy is young something is bad happening? Please help me so that i would know if it is safe for them to be together. Angy is the one yelling at him when he tried to kiss her now .. And they are still going crazy when hearing others whistling.. Should i try put another cage near maybe Angy doesnt want to stay?
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